Episode 107 - Resilience Amidst Adversity

President Scott L Wyatt and Solutions for Higher Education host Steve Meredith are joined by Danielle Sheather and Bailey Walker from SUU's Dance Program.

Full Transcript

Steve Meredith: Hi again everyone, and welcome to Solutions for Higher Education, a podcast featuring Scott L Wyatt, the president of Southern Utah University in Cedar City, Utah. I'm your host, Steve Meredith, and I'm joined in-studio today, as I almost always am, by President Wyatt. Scott, how are you doing?

Scott Wyatt: Terrific, thanks Steve.

Meredith: It's good to see you again. I don't run into you as often as I used to when we used to have offices next to each other. [Both laugh]

Wyatt: That's right.

Meredith: We are glad to have you over here on SUU on Main, and it is a beautiful springtime in Utah. And we've been talking a little bit with our guests in studio about how…what a wonderful analogy it is for spring that we're hoping that this is a period of rebirth and that the university and the world can move out of the cloud of the COVID pandemic that's held us all in its thrall. We like to pride ourselves here at SUU, President, of being of sturdy pioneer stock and making the best of what is a bad situation, and COVID surely has been a tough situation for all of us. But there have been those who have merely endured and those who have thrived…or is it throve? It's thrived, right?

Wyatt: That's right. [All laugh]

Meredith: There are those that have thrived and we have two wonderful examples of that that join us in-studio today. Would you like to introduce our guests?

Wyatt: I would love to. We're so delighted to have with us Assistant Professor of Dance Danielle Sheather and a first year senior dance student, Bailey Walker. I say that because, I think you told me Bailey, that this is your senior year but you've decided to have two of them. So, you're coming back next year.

Bailey Walker: [Laughs] Yes.

Wyatt: That's perfect. Well, let's start out with the most important person here. The reason why all three of us have jobs, and that would be you, Bailey.

Walker: [Laughs] That's right, yep.

Wyatt: But before I ask you this question, it seems like among universities and colleges around the country and academic departments that some have said, "We're just going to try to survive this year." And some have said, "We're going to try to take a pass for this year." And some have said, "No, actually we're going to make this the most memorable year ever, and we're going to learn how to do things we've never done before and we're going to have something really special." And I think that that is the dance department.

Walker: Yeah.

Danielle Sheather: Wow, thank you.

Walker: Thank you.

Wyatt: Well, it's true. The concerts that I've seen this year have just been so interesting, and they've actually…they've been a different way of seeing dance, and so it's brought a whole new refresh for me. I'm more excited to see a live concert than I was before. But now I understand screen dance, and that's given me a whole new appreciation. Anyway, why don't you tell us about your experience this year, Bailey?

Walker: It's definitely been a unique experience. Going online last March and learning how to be a dancer virtually was really…it was a challenge, but it was also really rewarding. I had two or three different dance classes where we would be learning virtually or we would learn from videos and then film ourselves. I did a lot of dancing outside on grass, wherever I could find a place that was COVID safe, and we were also taught different techniques for dance on film. I was in a Principles of Choreography class, which is like the highest level of our composition courses at SUU, and we had been working on in-person choreographic works up until going online and we kind of had to figure out how to make a shift to online and how to create new work in this kind of new environment. And what came about was screen dance and understanding how to tailor dance, tailor movement for film. How to utilize choreographic elements and dance elements such as space and time and energy and how they can be applied through kind of a new medium, through film. And so that was really a unique experience and one that I still carry with me.

Wyatt: So, I knew that I was going to be watching your last dance concert virtually. I assumed that what was going to happen is somebody was going to stand a camera up at the back of the auditorium and I was just going to watch dance as if I was sitting in a seat on the back.

Walker: Mhmm.

Wyatt: But that's not at all what it looked like. And Danielle, you haven't taught this before, right? I mean, not here anyway?

Sheather: Yeah, not at Southern Utah University. So, what was the biggest, I think, challenge, but also equally parts exciting was what Bailey is referring to as last year having to shift so quickly online. The biggest concern was making sure that everyone was OK, right/ Making sure that everybody had enough space to be able to continue their learning processes. And then the second thing was—we don't often talk about this because we're kind of like a pick up and go sort of scenario—the American College Dance Association, their festival was actually cancelled, and shortly thereafter we had to go online. And so, dealing with disappointment and those kinds of things and still trying to create a community and a sense of excitement for the future despite the fact that myself nor my colleagues really knew what that was going to look like. We were very fortunate in being technologically savvy so that that felt…we didn't feel maybe the stress that some of our other colleagues might have felt, but certainly learning to give attention to detail and correction online. Even so much as worrying, "Are they going to be safe? Are they going to get injured? Are they going to be OK?" That kind of stuff, because not being able to give corrections and the physicality of dance was scary to some degree. And not that we necessarily need to put our hands on the students, but that we can't actively see. So, that was a challenge. And then I think with the Principles of Choreography class that Nick Blaylock teaches, I think that that opened up an avenue, and a really exciting and interesting avenue. We had talked about creating a screen dance course specifically for SUU, but with the 47 curricular changes that Shauna Mendini, our dean, allowed us to do, we felt like one more push might be a little scary. But certainly, now that we've kind of added those units to those courses and just seen the growth of our students with very little to no experience in screen dance and having them just say, "OK, I'm going to jump right in." At the time of the applications for the student dance concert, the students had no idea, we had no idea what it was going to look like, and that was a little frightening. So, to some degree, we said, "Break down your hopes and dreams. Let us know what you would like to do and we will try to figure something out." We had to get some people on board with creating a screen dance, but really, as soon as those decisions were made, I think the students went and ran with it. And of course, I wouldn't be here if we didn't also voice our guest artist, Natalie Gotter, she did a weeklong residence with the students. And it's funny, as I was preparing for this podcast, I was looking over the sort of preliminary work that we do as artistic directors that oftentimes we see the show and we're like, "Yeah, this is the show," but there's so much work that goes on before all of that. And she came in and virtually did a screen dance intensive with our students, and we started with a Google Form that said, "OK, what do you want to learn about screen dance?" Because we were virtually starting from scratch, aside from the semester, the five weeks maybe that they went online the semester before. And it was great. All of the students anticipated in the forms, all of the students really understood what they wanted to get out of it, and Natalie was amazing with our students to be able to say, "OK, I'm going to give you a little bit about editing, I'm going to give you a little bit about camera angles, I'm going to give you a little bit about X, Y, and Z." And just in that short week that those students were allowed to workshop their pieces that they were creating, they certainly could have used material, as I will mention again, sometimes we throw out material and don't use it—I am notorious for that so I apologize to anyone that has been in my dances ever—but it was a really great opportunity, again, just to see how the dance community rallies. I think that that is something that…I'm really far away from home in Utah, and Natalie is in Pennsylvania, and just to see that there was this opportunity for our students to collaborate with an artist that we might not otherwise be able to get here because of schedules and because of how far it is and all of those logistics. And so, everybody just saying, "Yes." That idea of, "Just say 'yes' and see what happens." I equate it to standing on the side of a cliff not knowing if there's water or land below but going ahead and jumping anyway and seeing what happens. My parents often joke with me that I know 30% of what I'm doing in my life ever at any given time. So, I am a little bit of a risk taker in that way. [All laugh]

Wyatt: Wow.

Meredith: That seems high.

Wyatt: That seems high to me.

Sheather: Yeah, maybe. I mean, I might be being very nice to my parents right now.

Wyatt: No, no I was thinking if I get to 20%, I'm feeling good about myself.

Meredith: I feel like that's a good thing.

Walker: I'm a little below 10 right now, so…[All laugh]

Sheather: Yeah. So, I think that the opportunities that presented itself or…it would have been very easy to get down. And don't get me wrong: the day that I had to teach dance history that when the students found out that their ACDA conference was cancelled was not a fun day, I'll be honest. And the following day having to teach the musical theater students after finding out that their New York trip was cancelled, I got the brunt of those. That was fun. And so, it was easy…it would have been easy to sit in the disappointment and the unknown and the fear and the anxiety and the frustration, and to certain degrees for sure at home, at night by myself, there may have been a couple of times where I felt that way. But the reason that we're here is for the students, and I said this before but it merits saying again, that I don't know what a post-COVID dance career looks like and I'd be lying to my students if I did. And so, the ways in which we can prepare our students for the field, I think that's something that really stuck out to me when I agreed to do the artistic directorship of the show. We didn't know. We had no answers. And so, as students, we picked our eight choreographers that ended up then being seven…it was scary. Because there were a lot of questions and not a lot of answers.

Wyatt: Yeah. Well, and shouldn't admit this because this is being recorded and other people will hear it and there are some things that I just shouldn't admit, but a lot of times when I turn on my computer and watch a performance of something, I'm in my office and then I start shuffling papers and then I start organizing stuff on my desk and I'm giving good attention, but not full attention. But I couldn't even shuffle papers during your dance concert, and I thought…the thing that kept going through my mind was, "This is twice the work."

Sheather: Sure, yeah.

Walker: Yes.

Wyatt: Does that seem right?

Walker: Yeah. I've actually expressed this to a few of my mentors, and I think I've expressed it to Danielle and to Nick, that usually…I choreographed last year before COVID for the student dance concert, and usually you choreograph a piece and you give it to your dancers and they perform it. And at that point, there's nothing else you can do. You can kind of relax and just let whatever happens, happen.

Wyatt: Mhmm.

Walker: But in this case, you go, you give this choreography to your dancers, they perform it, you film it, and then you're given this footage that you have to figure out what to do with. And so, it was almost like two creative processes in one. First, the creation of the dance, and then trying to figure out how to put the pieces together, how to edit and make what you want out of it.

Wyatt: Well, and not only did you have to do all of those things, but you're also dancing on beaches or in a forest…

Walker: Yeah. [Laughs]

Wyatt: Or in a random building space.

Walker: Yes.

Wyatt: So, now you get leaves and sand and wet sand as part of performance, and now all of the sudden, there's a lot of color that otherwise wouldn't be there and the scenery…and I can see the dancers faces because the camera angles are changing and moving around. It feels more of a personal engagement with the experience for me, rather than just sitting in the 20th row in one spot.

Meredith: There's a three dimensionality…

Wyatt: Yeah.

Walker: Yes.

Meredith: That just allows the experience that there's kind of a flat plane in the stage performance.

Sheather: Absolutely. And I think, too, what it does for me anyway is if you get seated in a theater in a particular seat, I don't have the authority to say, "I want you to look at that and I want you to look at that and I want you to look at that."

Wyatt: Yeah.

Sheather: And film, you really get to decide, "Oh, I really want to do a closeup on a hand, a foot, an eyeball," whatever that may be." And so, the possibilities truly are endless also. Which is, again, it's completely different, but i think navigating those conversations. And I think Bailey is saying two creative processes, and I would argue three.

Wyatt: Yep.

Sheather: Mostly because yes, creating the dance, but then deciding what angles to film at. I also wore a videographer hat in a couple of the pieces as well, which was fun and scary and interesting because some students wanted to film on stage with stage lighting, so figuring out, "OK, let me get this manual out and figure out what that means." And then filming outside and natural light and those kinds of things. And I think for me, what was so interesting was, because I did tell the students, "I will be your videographer. I'm not going to make the choices for you about what angles you want to film at, about if you want a zoom or if you want something with a stable camera, I'm not going to make those decisions for you. We can certainly have conversations about that," and I welcomed those conversations in the mentorship process, but I wanted their voices to be heard. And I think that, so that conversation about, "OK, I've created this choreography, now let me walk around the studio and see what angle is the most interesting." And sometimes laying on the floor, and sometimes standing on a ladder, and sometimes…right? So, finding those things out that we don't normally consider when we're looking at a presidium style stage. I mean, even last year when we did Tabula Rasa, it wasn't a complete theater in the round, but it was a thrust. And so, this idea of, "What are the side audience members seeing?" So, even in that place and space, we're still considering, but on film there's just so much more to look at. And I know Bailey wasn't one of my mentees, but I knew I was going to be recording her piece and so we did have conversations. And at times, I was like, "Bailey, why don't you take the camera?" And it was like, "Uhh…I'm not sure." But I think it helps them to really understand what they're going to see in the viewfinder, too. We didn't have a Hollywood setup where we had a side screen where we could actually see what was going on, so it really was sometimes through a phone, sometimes through a video camera, but I think that…so, that's where I would argue that that third creative process comes in. and so, creating the work, but then deciding what angles, and then getting the footage back and then saying, "Uh-oh, now what? If it's a narrative, what narrative do I want to show? What journey do I want to take the audience on?" So, I think that that conversation was sometimes hard for some of my mentees, sometimes easy, but always in the interest of the push forward, the learning more.

Meredith: So, Bailey, you had mentioned that you had to learn new software, new processes, that since I'm kind of the tech geek on this podcast, did you use Adobe Premiere? Or where did you…how did you get into the video editing world?

Walker: So, with the Principles of Choreography class, we were kind of just expected…they gave us a few different options, and I have a Mac and so I had iMovie, and that's where I did my editing. And so, maybe it's obviously not the premier editing software, but I didn't necessarily have anyone sitting by my side showing me how to do these things. And so, it was all really trial and error based, and thankfully, we had various assignments that we would do last year that I think helped me with my editing process this year.

Meredith: So, I'm curious about this part of it because I've done so much of this multi-media work over the course of my career. How specific were you about timeline or what the expectations were of, "I need you to do this here so that I know that I have this shot in the can?" What process was that pre-production like and then Danielle, you mentioned that you did most of the videography and then there's that post, which is, again, a whole other set of things. I'd love to be walked through what that whole process was like just briefly.

Sheather: Yeah, sure. So, Bailey, why don't you go first because I think…and maybe talk about the shot list conversation? At the start of this, they didn't know what a shot list was.

Meredith: Right.

Sheather: So, I think that that's something that's really important to recognize, right? So, go ahead.

Walker: Well, I think…so, going into it, I understood that the camera can kind of do whatever you need it to. And so, that informed some of my choreography decisions, actually, even before I created the movement to how I wanted to highlight ideas within the movement. And so, I created when we were going out to film, I had, as Danielle said, I was able to do some pre-production filming just trying to get a feel for what I really wanted from the shots that I was going to get, and I knew we had a timeline as far as how long we had in the space that I chose. And so, I really wanted to give time for each of those shots. And so, I feel like I may have over-prepared, and so I created this big, long shot list—I should have brought my notebook because I have it, and it's extensive.

Meredith: I believe it.

Walker: Of just people…I wanted leaves to be thrown and I wanted a closeup or a roaming shot and all of those things.

Meredith: And it's, Danielle, you had said there are…I was involved in a performance about the film maker and dancer Maya Deren from earlier in the 1920s and 30s.

Sheather: OK, yeah.

Meredith: Kind of one of the first film dance people, and it was intriguing to me having spent as much time being married to a dancer as I have, it was intriguing to me that she could use so small a gesture.

Sheather: Yes.

Walker: Yeah.

Meredith: Because film allowed you to raise an eyebrow or to raise a little finger and have the audience see it, as you said, you can literally drag the audience by the nose and say, "Look right here."

Sheather: Yep, absolutely.

Meredith: And so, Bailey, did that really significantly impact the size or shape of your choreography? Or how was that? Explain to me how that impacted your process?

Walker: I think it did. I feel like the beginning of my piece, I kind of was still stuck in that traditional large gestures, but as I understood more what I was going for and what I was going to be dealing with, the gestures and especially the interaction between dancers was really important to me. So, in my piece there is a duet, and I don't know that I would have told them this if I didn't know that there would be a camera close up towards their faces, but I wanted them to look at each other a lot and be in conversation as they were doing this. And so, I didn't mind if, instead of what the choreography said, "Looking forward," if they were to look at each other. That was really something that was impactful, I think, for me is that there can be…even if it isn't necessarily a narrative story, there is intention that can be translated through those closeup shots.

Sheather: Yeah, I think…you were talking about conversation and interaction that is…normally, we'll think of an interactive scenario as someone walking towards each other in a duet or something like that. But on film, you can also have that roaming shot, and so it can give you that different understanding of what that interaction looks like, almost like that voyeuristic sort of thing. And I think for Bailey's process because we had so many conversations around how she wanted it filmed and because she did her research, so…how many times did you go down to your location?

Walker: I think there were three Saturdays that I took the whole day and just went and walked around my space.

Sheather: Right.

Walker: Because I was afraid I wouldn't know it well enough to get the shots I wanted.

Sheather: Right. And so, I think…and also knowing how much time she might need, having never done this before. I definitely know I want a wide shot and then I definitely know I want a roaming shot going counter-clockwise and then clockwise, and could you serpentine between these three dancers or whatever. That kind of thing. So, some of it was organic and some of it was very much, "This is what I do need, because I know I want that." And then other times, too, I think the collaborative process is interesting, having spent a long time talking about her work and what she was hoping to achieve and the ideas and the aesthetic, there was just one moment where the sun peeked through the sky and I was like, "I don't know if she'll like that, but the dancer is gone so I'm just going to do this and see what happens." And she was like, "Oh my gosh, I love that." So, just this idea of the organic-ness of film making that can happen as well. And I mean, the accessibility, right? You have your phone, you can legitimately just film anything at any point in time. And I think that that was also exciting and maybe overwhelming to some degree.

Walker: Yeah.

Sheather: And then I think that, with respect to some of the other films, for instance Brenna Evans, she wanted, she really wanted to film in the theater and she wanted theatrical lighting. And so, this idea of the halo effect not…we're not going to be able to get rid of that because we don't have this gigantic budget and all of these things. And she was like, "No, I love it." "OK, alright. I don't know if you're gonna love it on the big screen, so crossing fingers and toes." And so, these other things that happen, again, organically because we can't help them or because they just so happened to be. And I loved that all of the students really allowed…because they're all different too. I think that that's what I loved about the concert…

Wyatt: Oh, yeah.

Sheather: Was that sometimes we can…I've seen it happen at other institutions that I've taught at and certainly here, "Everyone likes this one move, and so we're going to put it in our piece." And it shows up in everyone's piece. But because they were kind of creating in incubators, so to speak to some degree because they really had to kind of hone in and focus on what they wanted to do because they were maybe a little bit scared, they were able to really have their voices be at the forefront of the work. And I wouldn't say that they weren't influenced by outside sources—certainly with the research and the assignments that you guys had to do, for sure you've watched other people's work—but the idea was, "OK, what do I want to do? And what do I want to say? And how do I say this?" And those conversations. And so, I think that was the most exciting thing for me in terms of, "What software are we going to use?" "What do we have available? What can we do?"

Meredith: Well, there's a gorilla aspect to…

Sheather: Yes, certainly.

Meredith: What you can available.

Sheather: Yes.

Meredith: So, I'm curious about that. You mentioned 47 curriculum changes.

Sheather: Yes.

Meredith: Are you going to go for 48 and add a dance tech? Is this going to impact the dance curriculum going forward to integrate technology?

Sheather: Certainly, if I had it my way and if I ruled the world, for sure I think that screen dance is not new, but it hasn't been integrated into the academy—not just SUU, in several different programs—mostly for a number of reasons. Is it cost effective? It can get quite costly and we can't assume that every student has a phone that they can film on, so those kinds of things. But with the film program that's coming up…

Wyatt: Yeah. That's right.

Sheather: We would love to do some collaborative…so, I would certainly be interested in that. And again, what's really unique is that we had had these conversations prior to COVID. So, I certainly don't think that we're finished—I'm sorry, Shauna. I'm very, very, very sorry. [All laugh] But I do think it's exciting because, again, President as you mentioned, we're a young faculty; we're really eager to bring to the students anything and everything that we can. Alexandra, she started the…a collaboration with the AT students where students can now get assessed medically to see, "OK, I have runner's knee, what are some exercises that can help with that?" And so, just this idea of really enhancing the program in multiple different ways, and I think COVID just shone a light on, "OK, you did all of these things, here's a curveball. What are you going to do with this now?" And so, yes, I would love it. And again, as I said, I don't know what a post-COVID dance career looks like, but I do know that film has been integrated for a number of years. I remember being on a cruise ship dancing on one of my contracts and I didn't really want a lot of time between my next contract, but I knew I didn't want to be at sea. And so, I was sending—and maybe I'm showing my age a little bit—but I was sending VHSs back to different theaters and different companies.

Meredith: Bailey, those were little tapes in a plastic…[All laugh] I say "burn a CD" to my students and they are like, "What are you talking about?"

Sheather: Yeah, exactly.

Walker: That makes sense to me.

Sheather: Yeah. So, I think that technology is certainly something that is necessary to these students' possibilities and capabilities. I mean, we had students who auditioned this summer virtually for Perry-Mansfield in Colorado. And so, there's all of this possibility. And so, again, I go back to, "Yes, we could have certainly taken the road of, ‘Wow, this is scary and hard and it's a lot more work. It's a lot more work.'" But at the end of the day, it also prepares and opens up more avenues. And I think as artists, all of us are really enthralled by the unknown, at least I am. I think it's exciting to discover new things, I do take the approach that I am forever a student. And so, I think learning about multimedia…I know a little, and just being thrust into a situation where you have to learn is exciting.

Wyatt: Yeah. And now for the dance students to leave with their bachelor's degrees and also knowing about how to put themselves on YouTube.

Sheather: Yeah.

Walker: Yeah.

Wyatt: That's a whole new world.

Walker: Mhmm.

Wyatt: That would be a good song. "A Whole New World." [All laugh] We've got to think about that. Steve, I had to…

Meredith: I'll check the copyright on that. Somebody may have already done it.

Wyatt: I had to laugh, Danielle, when you were saying, "I'm showing my age."

Meredith: Talking with these two makes me actually want to go out and go for a walk. They're so energetic. I have socks that are older than you, Bailey, in my drawer. [All laugh] So, anyway, I appreciate the youthful enthusiasm. This is awesome.

Sheather: Absolutely.

Wyatt: I'm not going to say anything about Steve's age, but I'm 60 and he's older than me.

Meredith: Yeah, I am.

Wyatt: So, I'm not going to go beyond that. At least weeks or months.

Meredith: Yep.

Wyatt: Well, I think this is such an impressive year. And when we talk about twice as much work as normal, the more I listen to both of you talk, the more I'm convinced it's more than twice as much work.

Walker: Yeah, you're probably right.

Wyatt: Bailey, when you said you had to go down to your spot three times and take up all of that time, you've never had to do anything like that before…

Walker: Nope.

Wyatt: Because it's just the stage.

Walker: Yeah. It's also…with filming outside, you worry about the elements. It was slated to be raining.

Wyatt: And, "What am I going to step on?"

Walker: And, "Is it going to be muddy? And are the costumes going to get dirty?" And all of these things. After the concert we worked in the costume shop, and so we, as choreographers, do all of the alterations (with supervision obviously) and so, we were putting away costumes and I was cleaning their shoes, and they were completely pink from the clay of southern Utah. And so, I was like, "I'm so sorry, these shoes are never going to be the same again." But there's those things you never had to worry about. When you're just performing on a stage, you know what to expect. And we got there that morning, I made them get up crazy early so that we could go just in case. And we got really lucky and it was overcast which worked out well because we didn't have to worry about shadows, and then as the day went on there was more…the clouds breaking, which I think added to the piece, which I couldn't have planned or choreographed. And I think that is another thing about screen dance that is so special, is that there are moments that you capture that you can't get any other way than just doing the thing.

Wyatt: Yeah. Well, and I think that watching the screen dance has gotten me excited to watch a live dance again. Because you can't replace live dance.

Walker: Yeah.

Sheather: Mhmm.

Wyatt: But seeing dance in a totally different modality just provides another appreciation for dance.

Walker: Well, and I think also it makes me excited to perform live. And all of these things that we've learned from screen dance, I do think they can be applied to live dance and I think it will make creative works moving forward, especially for me and for my fellow choreographers from this last concert, I think we have a richer understanding of what dance can be. And so, I think it will translate in these…it will obviously be different and I don't think there's anything wrong with it being different. And I think it really just lends itself to furthering our field, furthering the dance field.

Wyatt: Well, to both of you, thanks for reminding us that although we can't control everything—we can't control the circumstances, we can't always control the outcomes—what you have reminded us is, is that when we head into difficult, challenging times, we get to make a choice for the most part whether we come out better or worse. And you've come out better. And that's something, I think, that everyone can remember whether they're interested in dance or not.

Walker: Yeah.

Sheather: Yeah.

Wyatt: This is mostly a choice. There are some things we can't choose, but for the most part it's a choice.

Sheather: Absolutely. And I think that just watching the growth of…like, today I got to watch Bailey perform at the Festival of Excellence. And just to see…it's a studio performance, nothing…we don't have lights and stage and camera and action and all of those things, but it just reminded me how grateful I am for the opportunity to do what I do every day. And that's something…it kind of sounds cheesy and a little lame, but the reality is that there are dance institutions in higher ed that didn't make it through. And that's hard. I just taught for a community college, we have a really great relationship with one of the community colleges in Arizona, and they're all taking class from their house. And so, it just makes me really grateful to be able to be in the position that I am; to be able to continue what I get to do and to be able to share it. And I think that that's the outcome, is that we're better for it because we're in the situation that we're in and we've seen what the other side looks like. And so, we're really grateful that…I know several of the students have said, "Thank you so much that you're continuing to teach face-to-face, but continuing to keep us safe." And it hasn't been great dancing in masks and it hasn't been great dancing in a 9x9 foot square, there are certain things that we just can't do, but we still have to make sure that our students are able to go out in the field and work. And I think that that's something that that's really taught me, is that be really grateful and really thankful for the opportunities that are at your door, because it can be gone in an instant. So, I have nothing to thank but all of the powers that be for being able to make this happen. And for our students being super responsible. Super responsible. So, we can't argue with that.

Wyatt: Yeah. Well, and your students, Danielle, now have more that they can put on their resumes.

Sheather: Yeah, absolutely.

Wyatt: And Bailey, you've got more things that you're going to be able to teach in the future as a dance teacher.

Walker: Mhmm.

Wyatt: Well, congratulations. This has been super fun to visit with both of you, thanks.

Sheather: Thank you.

Walker: Thanks for having us.

Meredith: You've been listening to Solutions for Higher Education, a podcast featuring Scott L Wyatt, the president of Southern Utah University in Cedar City, Utah. We've had as our guests in-studio today Assistant Professor of Dance, Danielle Sheather, and Bailey Walker who is a senior student in our dance program. Bailey and Danielle, thank you so much again for joining us. And we also want to give a shoutout…sometimes these podcasts have to get turned around in an awful big hurry. This is going to be one of those, and so, to Libby over in the Online Teaching and Learning who does our sound editing and Natasha who does our transcripts and Lexi and Kenzie in our marketing office who make it so that it all looks nice and ready to go out, and to Jill in web services who plugs the whole thing into the internet and turns the lights on for us, thank you Team Podcast, we appreciate everything that you do. President, thank you, and thank you to our listeners for joining us, we'll be back again soon. Bye bye.