Speak Up: Documentary Film-making as a Tool to Reclaim the Narrative
Amandine Gay is a Montreal-based Afrofeminist filmmaker, activist, and journalist. Following her graduation from the Institute of Political Science in Lyon with a masters in communication, Amandine Gay joined the Conservatory of Dramatic Art in Paris 16 and began performing in theatre, film and television. Since 2012, Amandine has been working as a screenwriter, making her directorial debut with her documentary, Speak Up/Make Your Way, a feature-length Afrofeminist documentary on European Black francophone women. She is also a contributor to the information website, Slate.fr. Most recently, Amandine authored the preface of the first French translation of bell hooks' seminal, Ain't I A Woman. Amandine is currently living in Montreal, completing her second master's degree in sociology, focusing on transracial adoption. You can follow her in French and English as @OrpheoNegra
Reflection
On Wednesday, January 30th French director, afro-feminist, and activist Amandine Gay’s documentary Speak Up was screened. The film showed the discrimination and racism that black women face in France. You were able to hear stories and experiences from several black women which showed the similarities and differences to the experiences in the United States.
Following the film, Gay opened a question and answer to the audience. She described her journey to becoming a director and the efforts that were put into creating her documentary. She explained that it was not an easy process, especially creating an all black cast for a film. The making of Speak Up took about three years due to the lack of funding for the film. Gay also explained the reasoning for the documentary and why it was necessary. She expressed that France is about 20-30 years behind the United States when it comes to civil rights. Many French black people look up to African-Americans and their movements and successes when it comes to civil rights.
During her A.P.E.X. talk on Thursday, January 31st Amandine Gay focused on her process to becoming who she is today. She talked about the setbacks and struggles that she faced trying to create the documentary but how her role models were influential. Gay also mentioned how she is an activists and afro-feminist herself, but does not take the light of those who became before her by doing and saying the same exact things. Instead, she acknowledges the influential people before her.
Following the A.P.E.X. talk, Gay attended a lunch with students from the language department, Black Student Union, and key faculty and staff members. Students, faculty, and staff had the opportunity to discuss various topics with Gay. Many questions were asked about her film work, activism, experience in France compared to the United States, and more. She is interested in future film work outside of documentaries, although the costs are high. Her experiences in France compared to the United States are completely different as she explained she is viewed as French in other countries before she is black.
Lastly, Gay attended a group discussion with students in the Center for Diversity and Inclusion. Gay was interested in the student’s experiences in the United States when it comes to racism and discrimination. She was able to relate to almost everything that the students had experienced and expressed her ideas for change. Change will happen when people are recognized for who they are and negative stereotypes are broken down.
by Sunny Sims
Amandine Gay Podcast Transcript
[00:00:01] Hey everyone Lynn Vartan and you are listening to the A.P.E.X Hour In this show you get more personal time with the guests who visit Southern Utah University from all over. Learning more about their stories and opinions beyond their presentations on stage. We will also give you some new music to listen to and hope to turn you onto new sounds and new genres. You can find this here every Thursday at 3:00p.m. and on the web at suu.edu/apex. But for now. Welcome to this week's show here on Thunder 91.1
[00:00:48] All right well here we are it's Thursday 3:00p.m. and that means it is the A.P.E.X Hour My name is Lynn Vartan and we are so excited here we're celebrating a lot of things this week one. It's the end of January. That's good. You made it through the first month of 2019. Go everyone. And also our event this week has been featuring and a fantastic film maker and activist who is in the studio with us today and I'll tell you about her in a second. But were her visit is in a collaboration with two different entities on campus. One is kind of an early start to Black History Month and if you want to find out more about that you can look it up on the SUU website. But as always it's a course that we offered and there's films being shown all through the month of February and you definitely check that out. The other thing that we are collaborating with and celebrating is our SUU International Film Festival. So we're really happy to be collaborating with them yet again. So now we get to talk about our guest Amandine Gay is here and she is an afro feminist. She's a film documentary maker. She's an activist. She's an actress and just a fantastic person that we've been really enjoying getting to know. Welcome Amandine.
[00:02:07] Hi.
[00:02:09] I'm so happy that you took the time to spend with me on the radio and we showed your film Speak Up and I have so many questions about it. I so enjoyed it. But first we'd love to get to know and for our live audience and also for the podcast just a little bit about your background and how you came from there to here. And I know you have of course ties in France and Canada and a stint in Australia and tell us a little bit about yourself.
[00:02:39] Well it's been a long long road to filmmaking so I'll start with. Well with the beginning because I think it also gives a bit of context with me so I'm an adoptee I'm a trans racial adoptee which means that my parents are white and I'm black so I grew up in the rural France close to the city of Leon. So for those who are not familiar with geographical regions in France Leon is Somewhere between Paris and Marsailles, Marsailles being the South. You know the coastal shore of the Mediterranean Sea. So yeah I grew up in a village where there was about 3000 inhabitants. And my brother and I were the only two black people there. So you know it's very small and and so yeah you know it clearly influenced the person that I am even just for the fact that when you're adoptee right everywhere you go people look at you. So I think you can take it you know in different ways but I sort of like felt like I was a star also and I was like photographed and filmed a lot by my family so it is sort of like probably you know developed or I develop my you know egotistical kind of like yay look at me. You know.
[00:03:55] The Actress emerges.
[00:03:56] Exactly. I'll never know. You know often say that maybe I was an introvert to start with but I wasn't given much of a choice. So I end up having this sort of like really outgoing personality. But I think it's also linked to you know having a sense of control. If you are always going to be noticed and you know that its going to able or possible for you to hide. You might as well take control and sort of like be visible on your own terms.
[00:04:24] Right.
[00:04:24] So you know I think at some point that's sort of like how I made my decision and I've always been you know loud or basically the person that you you are likely to remember you know like if you've met me if you've met me you remember me whether you like me or not but you know you're going to remember me. So yeah I think a huge impact on who I was. But also the fact that I was really lucky to be raised in a household where you know my mum was the one who studied more. You know she's the first in our family to go to high school and then she became a teacher so she was also the first in our family to become a teacher. You know a really working class father working in a factory and the stay at home mother and so she was the first one to go to high school become a teacher. And then I was the first one in the family to get a university degree. And you know like she's always pushed me a lot and and so yeah she was the one who made more money who had studied longer. My daddy he stopped school when he was 14 and he was a street cleaner. And so it meant that he got up pretty early in the morning like you know he started work at 630 but he finished at 1:00p.m. So he was also a caregiver. Like when I was in kindergarten it's my dad who was coming to pick me up so that I wouldn't have to stay in the afternoons and I could at home. He was there for like all my birthdays he is like he would be the one entertaining kids. And you know it took me a while to realize that not all families were like that you know like that was my norm so I thought that everybody participated and you know in the House chores which it's just not the case.
[00:06:05] that's cool though what a great model.
[00:06:07] Yeah it was really cool and and I had you know this mum who was always like you can do anything go for it. You know very supportive parents and I think maybe also that's one of the good things when you're an adoptee like you've been you know people your family has waited for you a long time so yeah there is sort of like a messiah kind of arrival. You know when you get there is kind of like everybody's coming family the neighbors everybody's surrounding you. And I think at least for me it's been something that has really given me a lot of strength and confidence even if I was really different like my parents I've really been you know cheerleaders throughout my life. When I played basketball they would be here at to all my games and they've supported all the careers I've gone for a while. My mum has always been supportive and my dad was always sort of like not saying anything and if I would say you know like what do you think. I remember when I decided to go to Paris to study to be an actress or to go to drama concert. I told that to my parents so my mum was like yeah great you know she's kind of like really outgoing and always positive and my dad didn't say anything. So a couple of days later I was like So what do you think. And he says well if I tell you not to go and I disapprove will you stay.
[00:07:23] And I said no it's like well you know what to think.
[00:07:30] So You went from this really supportive childhood and then grew into adulthood and got into filmmaking but the social activism became a part of it right from the beginning because of how things are in France right.
[00:07:44] Definitely and also because you know my family was quite supportive but I was like a nuclear circle. You know I would the first question that is asked you know speak up is the day when you become black and what it means in France right.
[00:07:56] Yeah.
[00:07:57] And it's like all the questions from speak up is drawn from my own experiences you know. And so for me it was changing school when I was five years old and so because the kindergarten in which I was you know my mom had done a lot of work like before I arrived. You know she went to talk to the school headmistress and she was teaching there too and she said you know we're going to have a little daughter and she's going to be black. So it would be nice you know to maybe prepare other kids because they had never seen a black person in the village. So you know they bought a black doll there they bought a book about adoption like they did they did really well. And then I changed school when I was 5 because my mom changed school. And the first day I got there and then said we were supposed to you know line up and hold each other's hand and I go to a little girl and then she says no I'm not holding your hand you're black and I never heard that. Because you know like my parents like I always know that I was an adoptee. And of course I saw I saw that I didn't look like my parents but like they never told me like and you're black and white you know like that. That never happened this way. So it was like really a huge shock like you know I'll remember that now my whole life went to and from then on. And I think it depends who you are. Like I have friends who are really into you know astrological stuff and so they say like Libras constant injustice you know whatever. So maybe it doesn't come just from you know being a black face in the White place but it's true that from then on I've always been you know a fighter in the sense that I would not let people bring me down be teachers be it you know other students. Then I got involved really early in student groups you know from high school onwards. I would always be the class president every year and then I was like so I've always been political. But also again comes from my family. You know my mom she was in a union like in the teachers union. I've always been brought to demonstrations again. I thought everybody was demonstrating.
[00:09:55] Yeah yeah yeah its normal.
[00:09:57] I went to university and that friends were like my first demonstration. And I was like what.
[00:10:02] You know like I've been doing this for a while.
[00:10:05] I was in a pram the first time I was in demonstrations. So again there was also the thing that was encouraged you know speak your mind be involved in the community. And so yeah I did that quite a while. And of course it took me to a I would say more serious activism when I was in university because also I was starting to see how sort of like French promises like the promises that the French says the French model are giving were not accurate. I know and I had more arguments by then to sort of like start deconstructing that though. So my first step was to do my master's thesis when I was on the Institute of Policy Studies so my first master degree I wrote a thesis on the contemporary stakes of colonization in France. You know just to show that this history wasn't done that there were like current repercussions because at the time so the West after 2005. So I wrote this in 2006 because in 2005 a minister in France tried to pass a law that said that colonization had a positive effect in France and he wanted this particular phrase and framework to be included into history books and classes. So you know like that's the first thing that really made me realize that I had to change the narrative. It wasn't like I didn't think about it that in that way writing the Master's Thesis really was that it was like I am gonna write about colonization so that for once and for all I am not the only one who's done that right but I was like I'm gonna write my part just to show that no there was nothing positive about this particular part of a history. And for black communities in France it's had enduring consequences. Just when you look at the representation of black people in cartoons in films et cetera. So to me was like I cannot just be a bystander. You know I have to take action even if it just means action within academia. It was already a first step. And from then on I moved to being involved in feminist groups. And you know and just like you know being in different groups were always also having this thing. And that's probably why I ended up drifting towards art more is that I'm not doing really well with dogma and rules. And when you're part of a group there are a set of rules that you have to follow.
[00:12:28] Yeah.
[00:12:29] So you can't always speak your mind or you have to agree with the general decisions and. And I had a hard time doing that. You know I realized that I was I'm a free thinker and I think that in activism and political organizing one of the things that happens a lot is that because of the way you know those those activities are shaped you sort of have to stick to one principle one or two and you can't really move from this. And the way my mind works and the way I see the world is is in movement so you know it's real hard for me to to be staying really to think the same thing for two years. You know my position is going to move I'm going to I'm gonna find some nuances I'm going to And I can't deal with the fact that some people are going to want to force me to keep having the same discourse and to stay in the same line when my mind and my views of things are involved. So I realized I couldn't be in a group.
[00:13:34] Yeah yeah. And then how did the documentary film making or filmmaking in general come into your life.
[00:13:42] Well I think that like many women filmmakers you know you don't really allow yourself to think that you could be a filmmaker. So it started because it started actually quite early. My my you know me wanting to be a film maker but it took about I don't know for maybe about 10 years for me to admit it when I was 16. I worked in a summer camp as a janitor. That was my first job ever. And I think it's really good to clean other people mess. You know everybody should clean other people's toilets once in their life it gives you perspective.
[00:14:21] That does that's for sure.
[00:14:22] And in India this summer camp it was an artistic summer camp. So there were dance classes music classes and film. And of course when I was young and I was in love with the film instructor you know he was a couple years older than me and you know and so I started you know like in my downtime like he would you know give me a lot of films to watch and you know so I started developing an interest for film at this time. And and he was already making films. He was making you know scary movies and gore films and so we were like do all these shootings where we would like ketchup and stuff. And so from really early on I knew that it was possible to make films with pretty much nothing. And but I would never dare to do it myself so I would go work on his films and you know do other things. And so that was in my you know in my teen years that I went to (inaudible) the Institute of Political Studies to study journalism and quite quickly again I realized that I was not I could not accept the rules of journalism back in the day which were you know you have to write what your editor in chief says. You know I saw journalism as a way to express myself. And then I realized that that's not what it was anymore. You know. And that's when I first got an interest in documentary filmmaking because I was like oh OK it's kind of like journalism but you have more time and you have to You are encouraged to express your own views to be an author to be someone who has a particular take on the world and that was the opposite of what journalism schools were about.
[00:15:52] Yeah that's a great way to explain it.
[00:15:54] So I was like maybe I could do a master's degree in filmmaking. In the documentary filmmaking there are a few master's degree in documentary filmmaking in France but again I sort of like chicken out and did not apply for this Masters. Although from the second year in university I started working at a documentary film festival. Also I would go there I did a two months internship. So I was working to organized meetings between young film makers their producers and distributors so that was.
[00:16:24] So you got those relationships right from the get go.
[00:16:27] Exactly. And I was I was 20 at the time and because I loved it so much I would return to every summer. So I was the bar manager. I was you know receiving people I got to drive. DA PENNEBAKER for those who like the documentary filmmaking it was one of the highlights of my life back then it was like oh my God you know.
[00:16:47] cool.
[00:16:47] And so yeah that that was the case until I went to Australia because I had to do a year abroad at the end of my master's degree. So I went to Australia for a year and there the first semester I still did journalism classes. But the second semester I took Film Studies. So I had like a film theory class and I had a film production class. And in this film production class we learned to edit to like to produce how to make a film and a final exercise was to create a short film by teams of four but again well this time I didn't chicken it out but everybody wants to be the director in a group of four.
[00:17:24] of Course.
[00:17:24] And I ended up backing down because at some point you have to let it go. And so I ended up being the producer. But it helped me a lot when I made speak up right. You know because I knew how to organize a shooting. So that was my first experience. And I always wanted to be in performing arts but I think because there are so many stereotypes around black people. When I was a kid I used to play music to play trumpet but then I was better at basketball than I was at music. And I'm kind of like I wasn't dealing really well with not succeeding at something when I was young and I I failed a music test for something and that I stopped. I've gotten better now with failure. At the time it was just like I couldn't deal with it. And so I had always wanted to go back to performing music you know. I sang was still still sing but but also because there were so many stereotypes around black people people would always ask me because I was tall was you know tall skinny and stuff. People would ask me if I was and if I was actually a basketball player or if I was a dancer or if I was a singer and it was really important at that point in my life to be like No I'm an intellectual. And I'm I'm doing a master's degree at the Institute of Political Studies. But by the end of my time in Australia I was done with my degree and I was 21 and I felt like I had spent my whole life wanting to not be a cliche but not really doing what I wanted to do myself like I knew stuff that I had to do because I wanted to please my family.
[00:18:57] So I knew it was really important for my mom that I would go further away than she did in school. I had done that. You know there are so many stigmas around black people but also around the adoptees you know is your adoption successful in whatever. So I didn't want to be the bad adoptive the adoptee doesn't that doesn't go well so I had always been obsessed with this thing of being perfect like the perfect student the perfect athlete. But then I realized that I always wanted to perform and should I prevent myself from doing something that I wanted just because I didn't want to be a black cliche. You know I was like I was like I'm 21 and what if I end up having a corporate job or whatever and be really depressed because I'll be making money. But that's not what I wanted to do is going to be too late so I kept traveling for a while because I was also having to sort of like fantasy that would be a globe trotter and I would like travel for 10 years. And I realized that it was not a good idea you know in the long run. So I stayed in Australia. I went to New Zealand and I returned to Australia and went to Thailand. Then I tried to come back to France but because I'd been away for like a year and a half it was like a really tough transition. So I actually went to England for six months.
[00:20:08] Oh.
[00:20:09] I actually went for the weekend. But having an idea like you know I went to a big Caribbean Festival you know the Notting Hill Caribbean Festival and in London in August so I went there for like four or five days. But I had this idea in the back of my mind like if I can find a job I'll stay. And so that's what I did I found a job and I stayed there. And I think that by the end of that time because I'd been in a shared house where there was a drum kit and I always wanted to play drums and that was like. But I had never touched it and I just felt this thing of like keeping you know preventing myself from doing the thing I wanted to do. So I went back to France and then I announced triumphantly to my parents that I would go do a drama conservatory because I knew what it was going to do. I was going to be an actress dad heard that quite a few times like I'm going to be a globetrotter. I'm going to be a lawyer. I'm going to be a journalist and an actress and so my mom was kind of always like yeah ok whatever. And so yeah I moved to Paris got into a drama conservatory And I had the time of my life. I loved it. So I went back to music too. So I started to play drums. Yes that's the thing I always wanted to do. I took singing lessons i was in dancing classes just like doing a full full on formation as a performer right at this time I became a burlesque performer as well. And I started to work because I was lucky the first year in my drama conservatory a stage play. Director I don't know what it's called. But theater director came to our school and picked a few of us for a play. So I got an agent straightaway.
[00:21:46] Oh wow.
[00:21:47] So after the second year I started being able to work while I was in school and that's when I realized how stereotypical roles for black people although again like sometimes you know the cognitive dissonance is really strange. I did see French films so I don't know at what point I saw that I could have a role in a French movie because I'd never seen black people in French films especially arthouse cinema.
[00:22:10] Right.
[00:22:10] You know but like it's like.
[00:22:13] it doesn't connect Somehow. Yeah that's fascinating.
[00:22:15] And. And so yeah I was really free at school. I love school for instance. I love classical theater like a scene like the Shakespeare Festival. I'm a huge Shakespeare fan you know. And so I could you know learn all these parts in school but then I could only audition for black parts that were really stereotypical when I was in the industry and that's what got me back to writing first fiction because my hope was to write stories that I could play in. And then when I realized that I had no power over this storyline you know because producers had the power that I decided to do a thing on my own and to make a documentary because we had we had the camera at home and I saw that that's something I can do on my own. No no no team like a crew of two was enough you know. And at least I'll be able to carry out my my vision and to represent black women the way I know them and to sort of like have you have a document you know because I've been told so many times that the black characters I was writing were too American or too English and that they were clearly not Franc French black characters et cetera. I thought you know next time someone tells me that I'll be able to be like this is a film called Speak Up. There's 24 black women in it. You know they are real people and they are not You know you know the stereotypes you have in mind so can we now please move on the conversation.
[00:23:34] Right.
[00:23:35] To whether those black people exist or not to. Can we make this show you know.
[00:23:39] Well I'd love to get into speak up and talk more about it because it's really I mean it is a groundbreaking documentary and has broken all kinds of records and boundaries if you will and I'd love to talk about some of the themes and things like that when we get back but it's time for our first musical break. And as always you know I love playing some music for you guys and I love world music and this is a group that actually a young duo from France and I've played on the radio before because I love them so much they're called it baby. I B E Y I and this song is called exhibit Dia's and you're listening to KSUU Thunder 91.1
[00:27:17] Right. Welcome back everyone. Lynn Vartan here in the studio with Amandine Gay welcome back.
[00:27:23] Hey I'm still here.
[00:27:25] Yay. So what I'd love to get into talking about is talking about your film speak up which we show last night is part of our SUU International Film Festival. The first thing I'd love to ask you about it is about the title. We've been saying Speak Up the English translation of course but the title in French has sort of a double meaning right.
[00:27:49] Exactly in French it's Ouvrir la Voix. And in French voie as two spellings. So. X is a voice but a view I E means way or path. So by you know it's sort of like a play on words because we wrote it usually Ouvrir la Voie while would be like open a path or open a way but I put it with the X so that it would be you know you have this sounding thing so you think about open the way but then you see that it's written it's upon your voice and are raising your voice.
[00:28:22] Yeah.
[00:28:22] So yeah that was that was the idea and because we couldn't translate the play on words in English we decided to sort of like privilege the speaking up part because you know like that is the center of the film it's it's a talking heads documentary it's about empowerment through you know taking a stand and speaking up. So we we lost we lost the double meaning but we got like we kept the central one.
[00:28:46] It's a powerful title for sure. I mean even just speak up and I guess the next question is for anybody who wants to learn about the film or try to see the film in the U.S. You're on a month long tour right now of universities. But how can people either see it or make a play to see it or or tell people they want to see it. What's the approach here in the U.S.
[00:29:10] So in the U.S. for this year if universities or film clubs or you know those sort of like non-commercial screenings people can contact your new friends. So it's the institution that promotes French cinema brods because they have this program called Young French cinema. And every year to select 20 films from young French film makers that they are distributing for a year in the States because these are films that don't have a U.S. distributor yet. So for the moment that's the only way to speak up because we don't have a distributor so there can be commercial screenings and and we don't either We don't have a distributor for like VOD or you know DVD edition. So you wouldn't be you wouldn't have access to the DVDs are sold in France because not the same zone. Right. So for the moment it's going to only be screened in you know either French institutes or universities or cinema clubs. And you know I hope will find a distributor along the way that's kind of the point of having young French cinema
[00:30:18] Right. Okay. And is your tour listed on your website or on. If people wanted to maybe if somebody was listening and was in Seattle for example or L. A.
[00:30:28] So actually it's gonna So there's a there's a Facebook page for the film. So it's called you know Ouvrir la Voix in French but you have like ouvrir la voix/speak up. So you like if you if you type speak up in Facebook you're going to find the film's page and there every first day of the month so it's gonna be. It's got to be shown tomorrow. You have the list of all the screenings everywhere as the tour in the U.S. but there are still screenings in France and in other countries as well. So that's the way of knowing about the tour and I'm also sharing this list on Twitter.
[00:31:03] My Twitter handle orpheonegra.
[00:31:10] Yep.
[00:31:12] And so you can find it on my personal twitter on the film's Twitter says the same thing. It's at its peak up until I was picked up on on on Twitter. And you also have it on the film's website. But the film's Web site is www.ouvrirlavoixlafilm.fr We don't have an English website. And then you also have the tour list So there of a few places that it can be found.
[00:31:37] Great cause you never know somebody may be close by and want to check it out. So I've seen the film but for the audience listening. Tell us a little bit about it. It's 24 women. Is that right. And it's it's the talking heads documentary. Maybe go into a little more detail about that. Yeah.
[00:31:56] So the idea of speak up is to have a conversation between four women from Francophone Francophone Europe so you have French and Belgian women mostly French but there are you know three Belgian women in the film and the idea is to to you know go through their experience to realize that they have an expertise in what it's like to be a black woman in France. And and my you know my goal was really to use documentary filmmaking as a way to create empathy because I realized that if you start talking about you know racism sexism religious discrimination et cetera et cetera from the prism of life stories then people will open up to those themes you know if you were to try to I don't know have a conference or go in a debate about those issues quite quickly the debate will become a heated debate and nobody is listening to anybody but the cinema is quite different because once you're sitting in the cinema and you know the room is dark and then you have those women who are just basically telling you about their lives. What I often say you know is that you rarely see someone in a cinema stands up and says that's wrong. You know what I mean.
[00:33:11] Yeah.
[00:33:12] If they disagree with what's being said the worst that could happen is that they would leave the theater.
[00:33:18] Yeah.
[00:33:18] But otherwise they're gonna stay. And what I've often said to the you know Q&A's is that for many people in France is the first time they had a conversation with black women for two hours without interrupting them. And so this was an opportunity to learn things because you know I think that the interruption interrupting women is a thing right. You know and so you don't get to have the entire perspective. Yeah and get to have the entire picture if you don't listen to people you know for the entirety of what they have to say. So that was also the point of the film.
[00:33:50] You said something earlier along those lines that I wrote down in my notes you said reaching the hearts to get to the minds. I think that's a really beautiful sentiment and can you elaborate a little bit more on it in the way you want to reach people and how you want to reach people. Yeah.
[00:34:09] You know this idea comes (inaudible) is a film maker that I really admire. And one of the things you said is that to him a good movie is like a rock in a in a shoe you know and it's something that you cannot deny. And that's sort of like going with you everywhere. And you know one of the sensation I liked the most about about a film is when I leave the theater but it stays with me and I keep thinking about it and you know like only art has this effect on people. You can reach there and conscious you can reach the heart you can reach their guts. And so this is a whole different way of talking to people. Like when you're appealing to the mind of someone you can you may encounter barriers but when you're just going to like basic human feelings because that's what cinema is about. It's fiction fictional nonfiction you're just dealing in feelings and emotions. And so everybody's felt rejected at some point in their lives. You know when I tell the story when someone said I don't want to hold your hand you know it might have happened to any human being for any sort of reason. And then that they can relate. Maybe it hasn't happened to them on the basis of race. But it has happened to them. I didn't know that feeling of being rejected you know. And so to me that's that's why I'd like to work on you know I don't know the exact quote but Maya Angelou said that too. You know she said people forget how you look what you said but I will never forget how you made them feel. You know. And to me that's that's really what cinema is about. I want people to feel something and to say that you know they move so much that it displaces them you know in the way it is thinking and seeing things you know. And it's quite different also from activism because it's not about convincing them.
[00:35:51] Right.
[00:35:51] You know like I don't expect anybody to get out of the room and speak up and be like. And I will no longer be racist sexist homophobic or whatever. You know like that's not the point. But what I want is the film to be one of the few clicks that maybe will make this person see things differently. You know and decide that maybe you know they are not homosexuals themselves but you know it's none of their business to intervene into other people's sexuality. You know I'm just giving an example like that like maybe you can move people a little you know they might not change completely but they are moved to see you know those groups of people that they were not seeing as human beings for several different reasons then they will change their mind because they've been interacting with one of those characters and they like them really well. There's also a bit of manipulation you know because I've put the difficult themes at the end of the film. So when people's barriers are so low and also when they started to interact and empathize with a character. So by the time they become they realize she's a lesbian. They already like her.
[00:36:57] Yeah.
[00:36:58] You know I mean like that's that's one of the things also that you can do with film you know you can present someone the way you want and then say and by the way she's a lesbian. And do you still not like her. You know just for that.
[00:37:10] And this film has a lot of firsts associated with it and you can go into more detail. But the woman that you're speaking of is one of if not the first lesbian black woman on French film.
[00:37:25] Yeah. That is Speak Up is the first French film that features black lesbians and especially a black lesbian couple. That's definitely a first. You know maybe there has been some black lesbians somewhere you know that I missed. I did look at and found them. Maybe it happened but a black lesbian couple that's that's them. Sure. That was the first time. And to me was also a way of having twists you know because in black communities we talk about Black Love a lot but when we talk about Black Love we rarely think about queer people you know. And to me it was also really important especially because one of the characters coming out stories really violent she you know tried to commit suicide and she has had like a family breakdown you know because of sexual orientation and having in mind that it's the movie that I wish had seen when I was younger. You know I couldn't leave a younger audience who might might be queer to see that you know if she were black and lesbian then you would have to either you know renounce your love or renounce your family. I had to bring some hope so I was so fortunate to meet this couple so that they would tell their story and how complex and difficult it might have been. At some points but then you could also see them you know in love and being a black couple. And you know just being happy and so to me was really important to show that you you don't you're not condemned to be alone you're not condemned to have to choose between family and a loving relationship. And and that you know there is also because when you're young you tend to not really see that you're going to grow up you know like I remember when I was 14 15 it was really impossible for me to think that there would be something after high school like I was just like completely embedded in like high school drama. And you know and I just felt like this would never end you know. And I think it's really good to be able to offer a perspective you know to younger black people and to the global black community to remind that black love maybe a concept that goes beyond heterosexuality.
[00:39:35] And that's one of the things that you said that you just mentioned that you've said all along is that one of your goals is. I mean you almost wish that you had seen this film when you were a teenager or at any age and that's got to be a very fulfilling thing that you've made this film and now it's here it is. But can you talk a little bit more about you know what this film has done and can still do for young black women.
[00:40:04] Well I think one of the greatest successes I've had with Speak Up is you know black women sending me pictures so like I've had I've had families sending me pictures like the grandmother the mother and them and then their granddaughter and they were like we all went to see speak up. I did you know about a hundred screenings with Q&A's throughout Europe and in the states etc. But in France I went to many places and when I went to the West Indies I went to Quadalupe island. I had also a lot of women in their 50s or 60s who were coming to see me and saying my daughter she follows you on social network and she was adamant. I went to I came and see that film and now understand why and thank you so much. And so I really like that this is sort of like intergenerational you know conversation has been made possible by the film because often for instance in terms of immigrant stories you know the first generation migrants are the parents to make it they tend to be you know they... And also because they're not French so you know they feel like they really have to blend in too, you know and they're really grateful to her France for having you know welcome them etc. But they're children they're born in France so they don't have the same relationship and sometime you know the difference in this relationship is a really tough conversation to have between parents and their children also because the generation of their parents might have encountered a more open racism like they arrived in France and people like you know call them monkeys or whatever. So by the time they have children and those children grow up and then they say like you know my problem is not nobody calls me a monkey but I will not get a job that has you know that goes with my degree because I'm black you know or they're going to get some types of frustration or they're going to be really outgoing and wanting to be activists and their parents are going to be like yo yo take it easy because we are immigrants we have to you know blend in and be quiet and their children are going to be like I'm not an immigrant I'm French. I was born here you know. So those conversations when you have them one on one they can go bad really quickly as well.
[00:42:05] Oh you know within the family.
[00:42:07] Family. We All know about that.
[00:42:09] No one's listening to anybody etc. But when those parents come to see the film and they see this whole generation of black women who when we shot women who were between 22 to 47. Right. So mostly in their 20s 30s when you see this generation talking about all these issues that they're encountering in the school system you know in the workplace et cetera then it's sort of like puts into perspective what the children have said because it's not just their children. It's happening to a whole generation. So like the film has really been used and I'm giving the example of the immigrant conversation but clearly for queer people of color. And like you know black queer people. The film has been also really useful to just be like look it's not just me you know and it's you know a lot of black people especially black women have sort of really claimed the film for themselves and used it in many ways also because when we did the crowd funding to pay for the past projection initial cut of speak up was three hours which would never have been able. You know like it's not a film that you can show in theaters. So what we did is that we edited out an hour but this is we're already sort of like coherent you know faces of the of the film chapters we edited it out. We use those Chapters we edited out We were know sharing it sharing one of them every Wednesday on social networks because Wednesdays the day that films are released in France and so every Wednesday I would say oh look at how great the deleted scenes are. Imagine what the film's going to be looking like Give us the money.
[00:43:48] Yeah.
[00:43:48] That was the idea. And those extra is right. I've been online since 2016 and now they have more than 200000 views and they've been used by teachers when they have to work on you know discrimination and stuff they'll be used by again like in the Martinique island group of black women were having a workshop about natural hair so they used the extras on YouTube. So it's really been sort of yeah like a community tool.
[00:44:17] Yeah.
[00:44:17] The film is really people are using it for their own purposes. And to me that's the best part of receiving photos I love.
[00:44:24] And so that's a whole other thing that I'd love to. The YouTube channel is widely available.
[00:44:30] If it's with my name. So Amandine Gay . My name my last name is GAY and it is my true name. There's a lot of people Asking me that.
[00:44:40] Do they ask you.
[00:44:42] Is this really your name. Yeah They think maybe I chose it like it's a pseudonym or whatever. Now it's my it's my last name. So on my YouTube channel Amandine Gay. There is a playlist called Ouvrir la Voix and on this playlist you get the trailer you got all these extras. Not all of them have English subtitles but I think about you know five or six of them have English subtitles.
[00:45:02] That's great. So if anybody's listening in in our community who are teachers and want to open this dialogue in their classes this could be a great resource for them. And how about the women now. What is your relationship with them. I know I heard you say you had dinner parties with them. Is that still going on.
[00:45:19] Oh no. It's also because I'm not there. The main reason why not I don't have much of a social life right now. I am not with anybody you know like. I often joke like no that's my. I read centerfolds every now and then and people now have two kids and I left they weren't even married. It's like OK what happened there.
[00:45:42] Right.
[00:45:43] You know but you know what happened is that when I was making the film My idea was that since the concept was to become a session between black women I felt that it would have been weird for them not to have met. So when the group of 24 was you know constituted we starting having big dinners at home so that they would meet and discuss stuff and my hope was also like that's more the activist in me that you know things would be would be created from these meetings. You know go on projects of their own. And it happened you know a feminist group was created a black feminist group called Masie and now it's like a full on full blown organization in France. an Afro feminist marching band was created as well. It's called thirty shades of blackness. And and so quite a few projects you know were deviated from from the film. And so yeah we have you know we stay in touch through social network.
[00:46:37] Yes.
[00:46:37] Because I don't see some I see well because some also were my friends from before so but yeah we keep in touch and I mean they've been really supportive of the film like out of the 24 you know some of them have sort of like real jobs in the sense that they can't go and present the film but have a group of eight of the women who are in the films who go and do Q and A's when I can't you know. So to me it's also a great testimony as to why the film is is really true to what they're saying is that they're they're willing to go to any place in France and discuss with the public. What do the films be like. So I think it's it shows that they're quite happy with what it was and also it's been like an incredible success story for us right now. You know it's a saying We that was shot in my living room. We like it took forever to be made. You know like a project that we shot in 2014 and was released in theaters in 2017. So you know like they saw me struggle. They saw me first. You know.
[00:47:38] They're a part of it.
[00:47:39] Yeah. So and it's sort of like being our collective success like you know they took part in this thing and then it's so like blew out and now this the U.S. tour which is like a big thing and France to go to America. It's kind of like. We've made it you know.
[00:47:52] Fantastic. Well I could keep talking all afternoon. We have one more musical break. I mean I had more music but I want to get back and talk to you more and they'd love to ask you about your inspirations. You know who inspires you now and who inspired you in your past so we'll get back to that in the minute. But in the meantime I have a song that the title is Muheres so women in Spanish and the band is IIL La Bamba and this is the A.P.E.X Hour Thunder 91.1.
[00:51:32] All right welcome back. So that song was Muheres and the band is in La Bamba. This is the A.P.E.X Hour This Lynn Vartan and I'm joined in the studio for a last few minutes with Amandine Gay. Welcome back.
[00:51:49] Thank you.
[00:51:50] And I have some inspiration questions in your talk today you talked about some of the writers and some of the other artists and people who have inspired you and I'm curious who inspires you who is inspiring you particularly right now.
[00:52:07] In terms of quality of the film making. You know the person from my generation I truly admire is (inaudible) you know she's an African-American filmmaker and she's incredible the first film was called pariah and it was magnificent. And then she's made a musical film so it's not a musical but she made Bessie Smith's You know a biopic.
[00:52:31] Oh.
[00:52:31] And which is called Bessie and then she made a film that's on Netflix that's called Mud Bound. And so while to me she's amazing like the photography always good great direction of actors. You know I really admire her. So yeah that's that's the kind of first tell me her name one more time.
[00:52:51] Dee Rees so it's Dee and then Reese.
[00:52:56] Okay perfect.
[00:52:58] Or Rees. I'm not sure.
[00:52:59] But that's enough to find it for sure
[00:53:01] You can find her. And I really like her work is amazing. I really like the way things work as well you know the Chai's grade the episode she for Master of None was great. And I like also it's kind of like leadership you know. And I think the ones that we are all looking up to in terms of leadership is they're right because she's really sort of like sitting this best of mentorship you know for for black women in the indie industry and for women of color in general. And I think it's it's really beautiful to have examples. You know what we are missing a lot in France are mentors. I often give this example were only two black women producers in the cinema industry in France. I'm 34 and Laskawy the other one is 38. So we get no elders to look up to. You know we have to invent everything about ourselves. And it's yeah it's quite tough. You know sometimes I wish I could go in and have figures like you know down there in my country that would help us you know like guide us through the industry so and she's not the only one you know this Shonda Rhimes. There's Oprah like and you can sort of like also see you know generations right you know sort of like Oprah who was kind of like the first and then you have like Shonda Rhimes generation and then it is like this explosion in the US where you know you have (inaudible) you know. So that's that's something I'm really looking up to and you know admiring and liking. I also like Amyas. She's a UK film maker. She made the film Belle. So so yeah those are the ones I kind of really look up to when I saw so there was a show recently called a bisexual. I forgot the name of the first name is Desiré but I don't know what their last name is and I really like that show.
[00:54:56] OK.
[00:54:57] So yeah in terms of creators that's what I'm kind of enjoying right now.
[00:55:02] Cool. One question that I've I've heard people in interviews ask and I've been asked too if you and it's kind of a funny one. If you met your 2005 version of yourself in a bar for a bar fight who would win. Right. I think about that.
[00:55:23] It's definitely the 2005 version of me.
[00:55:23] Me too.
[00:55:26] I was feisty. And also I drank a lot. So I was I would be terrible you know at that time in a bar fight that would have been gruesome.
[00:55:37] It's a funny question and interesting to think about right because we think we mature so much but that feistiness you know maybe could serve in a bar fight and then one question that I always ask at the end of the show and this can be it can be super academic or it can be very playful and that's what's turning you on this week right now and it can be it can be anything it could be a food it could be a podcast it could be a TV show. It could be it. It could be anything it's just sort of a fun way for our get our listeners to hear something else so I'm on the game. What's turning you on this week.
[00:56:17] OK. So it's it's something I'm looking forward to I'm going to get my hair done when I get to L.A. and like I finally got the appointment you know schedule because I had pictures sent to the salon.
[00:56:30] Oh yeah.
[00:56:30] You know because I have natural afro hair. I need to find natural salons. So I first look because my next stop is Seattle and it's Portland. So I had to look at you know through Seattle if I could find a salon. I didn't that I look at Portland. I didn't. Then I looked into Los Angeles and I found a few but then one was not answering and then the other one finally the answer. But she wanted me to send pictures of the hairstyle I wanted. So it's been like it's been a week that I'm on this.
[00:56:53] Yeah.
[00:56:53] And yesterday she confirmed the appointment. Yes I'm going to get my hair pampered by the time I get to L.A. So that's my thing
[00:56:59] That's fantastic. What a great way to end. Well we're out of time. I'd like to say thank you so much to Amandine. Thank you for spending time with me.
[00:57:08] Thank you.
[00:57:08] Yay. All right. Well this is the end of our show and we will look forward to you listening in next time. In the meantime thanks for listening.
[00:57:20] Thanks so much for listening to the A.P.E.X Hour here on KSUU Thunder 91.1 Come find us again next Thursday at 3pm for more conversations with the visiting guests at Southern Utah University and new music to discover for your next playlist. And in the meantime we would love to see you at our events on campus. Find out more check out suu.edu/apex. until Next week. This Lynn Vartan thing goodbye from the A.P.E.X Hour here on Thunder 91.1